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Part Deux or Due of Season 2 opening CPT conversation, CPT Part Two. This part of the conversation, Dee and Ken look at the conflation of CRT as many mix Critical Race Theory with Culturally Responsive Teaching with the dubbed Chris Rufo Theory.
Take a ride around the globe as the brothers use language to tie in the part 2 discussion.
Music produced by Nicop Records, reuse for profit is prohibited.
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Begins at 2:55
[dee_lanier]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yll wel up to the pod. Cast two brothers willing and able,
[ken]:
willing and evil.
[dee_lanier]:
pull up a chair to the table. How you feeling Fa,
[ken]:
I'm feeling pretty good. Part two Part, or as I like to say, Uh, in Thealiano Doe,
[dee_lanier]:
I felt to Ti. Why? why you try to trigger me with that one?
[ken]:
you know, I have an interesting story around that. and uh, it's something that. as well as you know me, I don't think that you know this one of my early inspirations. Far as being a teenager and wanting to be the best version of myself as possible was when I finally had the opportunity to learn about Paul Robusson, and of course Paul Robinson is not normalized within black history. I have my speculation as to why, but of uh, due to the fact that it's in February and
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss,
[ken]:
some years you have twenty nine days. Most years you have twenty eight. but you really only have twenty when it comes to school, So there's only so many folks that you can cover in twenty days. But what really resonated with me was the fact that Paul Robusson was multi liual and my first trip out of the country. Uh, I remember this. I went with one of my college teammates. My first trip. We went to England, France, Switzerland, and Spain, and we stayed with my friends in England, and of course it was funny because of the nuance of language which I love language, the nuance of language and referring to things like, uh, you know, it's not a trunk. It's a boot. They're not fries or crisps. Uh, I'm sorry, they're not chips. They' crisps and stuff like that, but I remember I'll never forget this when we stepped off the plane at Um Dagal Airport there in Paris, and you had signage in the airport that was in French and English. And then once you left the airport and we looked at each other and like due, we in a foreign country Now, and uh, it was funny because I was like, You know that feeling I have of not being able to navigate communicate, Um, it just was a catalyst for me like you know what. That will never happen again and I'll never forget that. I, uh, you know, I studied zulu in college, but when I got back from that trip I literally started taking classes. I took French level in one, level two, Italian level one, level two, level three. I. I did a refresher course in Spanish and it's just one of those things where again Paul Robson was multilingual and he was able to navigate all these different spaces. Uh won because he was able to make effective cross cultural connections, but he was also able to communicate in other languages, so
[dee_lanier]:
Yeah, okay, I got to speak to this. Because you just blew me away, But it was on one thing. I hyper focused on one thing. you said a bunch
[ken]:
oh yeah, I'm for that
[dee_lanier]:
of stuff like you. You went cross culture. Yeah, yeah, you, you went on Paul Roberson, You, you got people googling checking out the Wiki page, trying to
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss.
[dee_lanier]:
figure out who's he talking about To
[ken]:
renaissance man, one of my favorites,
[dee_lanier]:
you? You, you took you took us on A, you took us on a trip. you put us on a plane.
[ken]:
take out that passport.
[dee_lanier]:
You, you, uh, you, you, Yeah, you had culturated us to to different, uh words for foods. You did all kinds of stuff, right you? You talked about you trying to to learn multiple languages. I was terrible learning languages for ill, But anyway, and all I could, all, like I say is back at all the way up. You mentioned something at the top, which was, not only is February the shortest month in the year, you know, and there's always been speculation over black history month being given the shortest month of the year, but then you just pointed out a simple fact. it was just a footnote in your comments, and that was. There's only twenty school days within a month, so it's like we spent all this time talking about why we got the shortest month, but just to consider, we also had the least amount of school days to actually focus in on that right, And so anyway,
[ken]:
Well, this points to the
[dee_lanier]:
it's just another typical typical way that you just you drop like fourteen bombs
[ken]:
right on.
[dee_lanier]:
in a row and make it hard to respond to
[ken]:
Well, I keep in mind, depend upon your school calendar, you might have Uh two three day weekends in there, which means you have even less day, And this. This
[dee_lanier]:
Yp,
[ken]:
really points to my, I would say, my urging, of uh, our educational systems. if you will that any time you have a specific group that has a designated month, there is a high probability that they are not normalized in the quote Unote Standard curriculum. And what really should be happening is that month should be used as a celebratory accumulation of what you studied throughout the year and will continue to normalize within the oteote standardized curriculum. But but the whole reason was February, at least from my understanding, is Carter Witson
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[ken]:
selected February because of the volume of significant black historical figures who
[dee_lanier]:
right, right,
[ken]:
have birthdays in February, of which including Frederick Douglas, So
[dee_lanier]:
Yep, Frederic Douglas, and Uh President's Day, and you know supposed to be a conjunction with Uh, Abraham Lincoln, liberating the slaves, right, some of the. Things I've at least
[ken]:
right. right,
[dee_lanier]:
heard interesting. Yeah, we got to jump right into this convo because you got me there. I just got to say it because you were talking about the the need to normalize the contributions of so called marginalized peoples within this country. On those those months should be a celebration. But but their stories in their contribution should be normalized throughout the entire year. And right now continuing, we still have an attack on cultural experiences and historical significance of black people, in particular, right, like mentioning of race in school system. So we have this over conflation of what C r T is. And now you have uh. The assault continues. Uh, we must. we must eliminate the big bad bogie man called C R Teds. It's eroding. Um, are patriotism and it is indoctrinating our students in having them hate our country. This part too, We got. We got to talk about man,
[ken]:
Well, Yes, and see for me there' a couple of things I'd want to know. Let's take critical race theory. Uh, let's just put it on on on the sigh. For just a moment. What exactly is wrong with studying the social and historical contexts of different
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss
[ken]:
groups and what is the great melting pot? That is our country. What's wrong with that? How else do you expect to have a
[dee_lanier]:
besides the fact that you called in a melt, melting pot, besides that out.
[ken]:
well? I mean, I'm using that descriptor, because that's what people generally describe Y in our country, as is a a melting pot of all these different cultures in peoples, and so on, and so forth. So
[dee_lanier]:
assimilation at its best described in a fond de
[ken]:
in a fond, do correct. So if that is the case, my whole thing is. If you, if you truly want, you have a co operative cohesive society of which we are all a part of that. The the grand Grand experiment called democracy, Doesn't it make more sense to be able to be in a position to make meaningful connections to others? That doesn't? That isn't predicated on agreement, But it's an understanding of the fact that you and I should be able to engage in dialogue around some of our differences, but also some of our similarities. And if I don't understand you, and if I haven't learned anything about your history, your culture, your lived experience, then I'll never be able to invest in that dialogue. And therefore what likely happens? as we both know You don't. even. the. The dialogue doesn't even occur in the first place. And then what sets in fear? In? In fact, I remember bringing it up in one of my workshops. Um, is uh, ignorance, lead to fear and fear, least to destruction. You destroy that which you don't know and by which you fear, and in the end which is funny because you know you have her book over your right shoulder. With some of us, Heather, Mc. Ge. In the end there are things that end up costing us all as a society. Yes, they disproportionately cause folks like you and I more. But at some point you have to recognize look, are we going to all pay the price for
[dee_lanier]:
sssssssss.
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss,
[ken]:
this? Are we going to recognize that there is power and dare? I use the word liberation in collective good, and you have to be able to understand that part of that collective good is building pathways towards an understanding of each other's different lived experience. Not denial of that experience, not dismissiveness, not marginalizing it, not oppressing it, not uh, not fighting fighting or operating from A by a disposition of fear, and I, I will tell you that, again, going back to my reference to travels, my most memorable travel experiences in all the countries I've been to and I did account recently. I've been to fifty four different countries, and I will tell you that I remember early in my career one of the wishes and dreams that I had for all of my students was for them to be able to get a passport and go see another country in the world. Go somewhere else. go go go, and especially a country where you don't speak the language. You find out how, if you find out very very quickly how insignificant you can be, but also how powerful you can be when you do things in this while of language, When you can now communicate in a completely different language, or you can uh, operate in spaces where Um, you know, like I, I was mentioned it with Brian earlier before our producer. Before we started recording my best experiences in my travels have been going to local establishments where I'm consuming cuisine and engaging in uh, an organic dialogue with one of the locals and especially if they don't speak English. And now we're using bare language and they see me. They're like. Oh, iss an American. Oh, wait a minute. he can speak my language. Now, I will admit that dialogue isn't to the degree of like our recordings. but then I, you learned so much about them. their culture, and your honesty. Here's the other one. You learn a lot about you, Rself. How well are you able to adapt and adjust to the environments of which they're not normalized for you, And and this is a thing. I
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[ken]:
challenge all educators, especially educators that I've chatted with that Teach in international school. You know when I, when they say well, why do we need to engage in D. I work, or why? is it important for us? I'm like. Do you want your students to be able to navigate uh different cultural spaces and contribute you, and thrive in those spaces? Or do you want them to avoid them, Because there's more comfort in their own echo chamber? And that's why I always say when when I go to cities that I haven't been to, I, I think to myself, What direction did the tourists go? They go left. Good, then I'm going right,
[dee_lanier]:
'. a good lu. That's for real. that is for.
[ken]:
Does the restaurant? and here's when. Uh, this was. I used to do this, especially, uh. you know I've I've had the privilege of of going to Uh, Rome, Italy, Uh, more than a dozen times I know what areas should go in the city now For sure where you won't find American tourists. You also won't find any English on the menu. Guess where the
[dee_lanier]:
but
[ken]:
best meals I've had in Romar
[dee_lanier]:
of course, of course, when ain't that the equivalent of a you roll up on a sofoo restaurant or a Mexican restaurant. Or you know what whatever is is near you, And you see if you see nothing but folks that are native to the culture of that cuisine, then you know you' in the right spot. And if you don't roll out,
[ken]:
E. Exactly if
[dee_lanier]:
roll out
[ken]:
I may add, I have another cool, kind of add ont to this, and it kind of ties in with the whole point of of this part too. So I've I've been to Mexico city, Uh half a dozen times And it was my third trip to Mexico City, and I was saying, Um, can't remember the area in the city, but it was an area where there's this big square, and Um. I, I'm drawing a blank on it now, but at any rate so I was in a hotel and I was like, you know, I want to go eat somewhere cool, but it's got to be a local establishment And so I went out and walked around And I did you know, I used my phone and did my my own personal way of looking up top rated
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss,
[ken]:
restaurants this or the other, and I ended up finding a restaurant there That was a Argentinian steak house and I was like interesting, an Argentina steak house in Mexico City. So I went over to the restaurant, and of course English is entirely in Spanish, which is fine because I, I'm confident in my ability to communicate in Spanish. I could read the menu with no problem. So I go in and I'm I. I introduced myself, and the short version of a long story is the person who greeted me at the door is the wife of the chef, and they, they own the restaurants. a family on restaurant. And so ultimately, I sit down and I'm like, You know, it's my first time here and of course I'm using as much Spanish as I can because I was a little bit nervous, but you know the nervousist wasn't going to be a barrier, and ultimately they were like. You know what do you want to order off the menu and I was like, I'll I'll eat whatever you. you feel. I should eat whatever you bring me is what I'm want to eat,
[dee_lanier]:
o's. that
[ken]:
and I'll never forget the look on the face of the husband where he just looked at his wife in this big old smile and the restaurant's busy by the way, but I will share with you that I probably am the first black mail patron of that restaurant. Actually, made be clear, black male American in that restaurant
[dee_lanier]:
right there you go.
[ken]:
and they brought out he brought. they brought out some meats and and back then I was consuming meat. So if they brought out some meats and some sides and some other stuff and they just kept checking on me and they're like, Are you okay and I'm like this is great, blah, blah, blah blah. Then the wife, uh, it was later in the evening, so they, I think they had done their last and he came down and sat down with me and wanted to practice English with me and I wanted to practice Spanish and again, the whole thing is is. so I do this whole thing and uh and then it comes time to pay the bill and I'm like Okay, so you know' Spanish. I was just oning, Uh, you know, Likequin, the porfb, which means you know the. And so she brings a bill and they only take cash. And I'm like, Oh, darn it, I only have my card and so then the wife was
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss
[ken]:
like. Well, it's okay, So there was a guy in there who goes to that restaurant all the time and he's like Well, there' an at Tm around the corner and I'm like Okay. Well, I mean, I want to make sure they know I'm not going to go and like not come back and stuff, and he's like, Well, I walk with you and stuff, so I walk with him and he's telling me the history around that restaurant and all these sort of things. So at any rate, the whole point was I go back. I pay the bill and they were like you know, Can you please do a review on trip advisor, or're glad you were here? blah, Blh, blah, blah, And I didn't realize that they' only charge me for one thing that I ate. I ate like seven different things on that bill and my whole point sharing that with you is, I don't get that experience If I don't go off the beaten path and I don't say well, I might be fearful of a communication gap. I can speak enough Spanish comfortably that I can articulate what I'm there for what I would like, and have a base level conversation. and honestly of all the trips I've had to Mexico City, There's a reason why that is the one that I have the most vivid memories of
[dee_lanier]:
Can I highlight ladies andtlemen Only do we just learn a ton about Mister Kinchlton, always learning about shel. but also you. You gave us a full entree of cultural experience And not only did you tell us about language, which is you know one of the upper surface level, but connections to culture. Then you spoke to food. I think the biggest thing is that you told us a story and you told us of your experience, and so for everybody, tocognize that that is part of culturalss, Instruction is to communicate through oral tradition and stories, and you gave us a full smokers board right there, But the reality is is that things like that, and just mentioning that and highlighting that, let alone
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[dee_lanier]:
utilizing that as a technique for connection and instruction is what is on full on assault right now, which is why I am doing what is also called, to name it switch tracking. I switch backck, it because you brought it up by you. said this one of those things like I'm learning more about my mind in a way I think, and I realize that I get distracted by also con. hyperfoed. Um, And one of the things that you said early on was that you just mentioned. You know, the democracy is a great experiment, and of course we, you know we. We've heard that reference multiple times, and all I could think about was the fact that we don't blink when we hear this great experiment called Democracy of the United States. Like this social experiment that we're all engaging in, We don't blink at calling in an experiment, because by and large it's like it's just part of our lexicon of the history of our country, And you know it kind of sounds interesting like we're still trying to work this out. But let someone put the word theory at the end of something, and it can be attacked and critiqued critical race theory. You know, one of the things that make it Um. susceptible, if you will to critique is just the fact that it's called a theory. Let you know. Disregard the fact that you know the theories are are meant to be proven through act and action research.
[ken]:
right, right,
[dee_lanier]:
But instead we're just going to critique it just because it has that word, just because it says that, which is ridiculous.
[ken]:
Well, don, I agree with you, I think in terms of the use of the word theory itself, the whole idea around theory is that it requires. like you said, additional action research. We
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[ken]:
have a basis of information that we are operating from right now. Um, actually, less, let's even, let's even rewind it. We have a hypothesis that we will then test. And if those tests confirm components of our hypothesis, we now have a theory. But that doesn't by any means mean that that's the end and the whole idea around critical race theory x theory, why theory, z theory is that it's still a work in progress and I still go back to my statement. What is wrong with studying of the social and historical context of our systems and institution through a variety of particular lenses? Criticalce through race. I had several women studies classes at U Cl. A? That was through women. You know. the whole idea around that is that in order to better understand the lived experience of a quote unote, the first step to me is to study the social and historical context from a theoretical approach.
[dee_lanier]:
See, but you and I can have this conversation because we' to having the critical dialoge about it. understanding it deeper and engage. You know as necessary. but you know as we were talking about, as we've talked about multiple times about. Say, we were talking about offline as if like, When was that? At what point? but um, I just say. Well, I just think it's working the whole assault on critical race theory, as as as a primary discussion point. It is a distraction right now is we can bring the bogyeman into the room in order to distort the reality of what's real happening because for all of our listeners just to take notice of,
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[dee_lanier]:
when did this a hyper, this uh, analyzation of critical race theory come into play right at the height of white nationalism and white supremacy culture being called out for what it is, especially in light of more recent instances of black and brown bodies being laid to waste by police officers with no sense of impudity towards them, right like we have W. Once the the eyes were on, Hey, this is this is going on and this is injustice in full display. And you know what something has to be done about it and folks are marching in the streets concerning it. Books are being sold out like crazy on the topic. Once there's a hyper focus on the racial injustices in a history within our country is being looked at critically deeply broadly by a lot of Americans. All of a sudden, we're going to switch track it. We're going to do what I appreciate you always highlighting, which is darvo. We're going to bring in something else and we're going to say the real problem is this because the screens that antifa weren't working Because people are like. What are you even
[ken]:
That's right,
[dee_lanier]:
talking about? But once we could get into critical race theories, The real problem which is wild to be of like, So we got.
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss,
[dee_lanier]:
we have white nationalism on full display, full display, And so then what gets attacked, critical race theory. That's the problem with our society today, like classic switch tracking, classic gas lighting?
[ken]:
it is, and for the audience, as switch tracking is which. I'm examining this at one one of a long list of gas lighting tactics which switch tracking is one of them, and it's easy to overimlify and remove nuance from an argument if you are operating from a degree of limited information or from emotion, And that's why,
[dee_lanier]:
Yeah, that's true.
[ken]:
but I've had the dialogue. we talked about it. People want to talk about critical. No problem before we engage in a dialogue. Tell me what scholars you read
[dee_lanier]:
all right. C. Can we can we take? Can we take them to the car? Can we take him to
[ken]:
that.
[dee_lanier]:
in the in the linear beat up Camery in Charleston? South Carolina can indeed hang it out for the first time in over a year Because some dag on pandemic, keeping us on locked down and we're talking and you and I were just trade bars on how we like to engage this conversation. So thing that both of us like to do is say first of all, let's see if you are a good faith actor. right. So you want to have a conversation about critical race theory? Let's see if to to shut out James Ford. Let's see if you really are a good fath actor. I'm going to ask you some questions to see if you even willing to engage. Because none of this matters if all you want to do is have a debate instead of a full
[ken]:
Yeah, yeah,
[dee_lanier]:
dialogue. So okay, question number one, when you say C, r T, are we talking about cultural responsive teaching critical
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss,
[dee_lanier]:
race theory, And then yours just blew me away. Yours blew me away.
[ken]:
yeah,
[dee_lanier]:
I' let you say, or what's the third option?
[ken]:
the Chris Rufo theory, which is a guy who
[dee_lanier]:
and
[ken]:
started who, Uh, theoretically or arguably I is worth theory. Theoretically, he's the guy who. Yeah,
[dee_lanier]:
very theoretically.
[ken]:
there's a theory. He's the guy who started the whole thing and turn. Turn what? what is truly critical race theory into this. He. he. He morphed into this whole, like overarching uh concept That couldn't be further from what it actually is, couldn'tc a single scholar and I don't remember if I shared it in part one. but if I did, I'm just going to repeat it of all of my friends and family who have j Ds. jurisdctors went to law school. Of all of them. only one had one class that could be definitively connected to critical race theory And it was Con law, too, And it's because he wanted to be a civil rights attorney Only one.
[dee_lanier]:
Yeah,
[ken]:
that's it. So it's not even as
[dee_lanier]:
so
[ken]:
ubiquitous in law school, and that's what the theory is applied to.
[dee_lanier]:
right. Oh, okay, So now, of course you jumping into if people are willing to go through the first Herrl, which is to entertain those three questions. Right, Which one are we talking about? Were talking about cultural response teaching, or we talking about critical race Theor? we talk about the Chris Rof theory. If we could have a dialogue in exchange about that to at least distinguishing. What is it that we are talking about? Um, Okay, because if you can, if you can understand and and recognize the extrem, the extremity, the extreme nature of Christopher Rufo, Theory of it's just all a political ploy to distract from reality.
[ken]:
Yeah,
[dee_lanier]:
Okay, So if we can get that off the table and then we can have a clarity between the distinction of critical race theory and
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[dee_lanier]:
Um. A. And why did I cultural response of teaching? They had disbut Do blank and myself Right there. If we could do that, then we can next have that conversation and say, okay, uh, Within what field is critical race theory? You know what was it originated from, and what is it most relevant to? And if they can understand or come to the conclusion Law, and then we can speak about its its main theoretical approach, which is to say, if you understand that race is at play, then you would also recognize that there are races at play in the disparity of what the outcomes are in our legal system, And so if you see an. Over representation of black and brown people within jails, right being incarcerated, um, and longer sentences for the same crimes as white people. So if we could, if we could at least separate all the tentacles of that that seem to be confusing people. To say what we're talking about, disproportionate rates of discipline for black and brown people. That Crirery' theory would say, bias, and the concept of race, and all of that from a historical standpoint, as well as the present Uh, is is the reason why that is happening. If that is the case, and if we can at least get head nods and amimens and agreements there, then I would say, Are we recognizing the same things happening within our school discipline
[ken]:
right,
[dee_lanier]:
systems? Because that is the most relevant conversation I believe we should be having about C r T in education?
[ken]:
I
[dee_lanier]:
Critical race theory, An education
[ken]:
agree. I agree. I agree. I agree, and uh, I learned something recently that I brought
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[ken]:
up. I was in a. I was part of a panel discussion, Uh earlier this week and Um, and it was something I brought up in a penel discussion because the whole idea was around digital equity and talking about. Uh, you know, the use of technology and things things along those lines. And what I had brought up to the Panneelist was. in order to really understand the impact of digital equity, you have to be able to da Iy say, look at it from a theoretical approach. So for example there's two things. One. I mentioned, Um that there' is only four types of schools that exist, so hear me out on this four types of schools. The first school is the executive school. as a school where they're they. Uh, They' are messaging as normalizer around. We're builing the next generation of leaders. They have financial resources, Uh, they have access to whatever resources that are necessary. Uh, we generally refer to those schools as pedigree schools. For example, Okay, the next set of schools is the middle class schools. Those of the schools that tend to be in affluent neighborhoods, they're not necessarily pedigree school, but they' are in affluent neighborhoods. Where what? when you graduate from those schools you tend to replicate some definition or variation of the quote. unquote middle class. Then you have trade schools. Those are the schools of which your learning experience is going to prepare you for what is commonly referred to as a blue collar job, Um, A and and, and full disclosure. On a side note, I have zero. in fact, I think career and Technical education programs should be ubiquitous across all districts, and they should be expanded and the courses should be required and I'll have that debate with anybody on that one. Uh, but that's a whole different conversation for us to bring up another time.
[dee_lanier]:
Ib could see, Iye, butck could sayla's go.
[ken]:
Well, No, because I'm gonna. I'll give you one prime example. So in one of the kenos, I've done for uh, c, t, e, uh, c, G groups and a c, t, uh conference Is I basically
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[ken]:
said Look, I can. I can make a definitive argument based on my lift experience that because I had culinary arts, it made chemistry more contextually understandable. You see that it doesn't require me to say Well, I want to pursue a career in colonards
[dee_lanier]:
Yep,
[ken]:
as much as I love cooking. But what it did do is it made it to wear. Okay. Now I'm understanding how different chemicals work together in the context. I'm using it in context. Same reason why I bring up the example. I share. that because I had drafting, I think it made it to where geometry was more contextually understandable. So again, Executive school, middle class trade school and school to prison, And those are the schools that tend to have dracoonian discipline policies. Uh, they operate more from conformity and compliance and learner empowerment. And and they do things that subjugate students to where it prepares them for having little to no options by the time they finish, and then a large, a disproportionate high percentage of students end up unemployed or incarcerated. And so this whole idea around, take those four schools, and then now apply the Digital equity part, where I even said. It's not a coincidence that many of your trade and school to prison schools are geographically located in areas where they don't have broadband access, where they have limited access to technology. Or if they do have access to technology is used in ways that are what I identify as simply the digitization of worksheets and lessons.
[dee_lanier]:
yes,
[ken]:
I mean, I can you can do that now. Going back to your C, r. T reference, I brought up now. let's look at school funding. I looked at how school funding is largely predicated on property taxes, and now let's trace back three or four generations to housing accessibility. The development of our urban centers and our suburban areas who had access to those. What laws were in place that denied you acces to it by
[mediaboard_sounds]:
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[ken]:
way of getting an F A alone. You see how I am, Drop and see how doing that
[dee_lanier]:
yep, noe, see, But that's what you. What you're doing Is is a good faith actor right, which is understanding what C, r. T you know where it originated right in the nineteen seventies and eighties, and what it was primarily looking to explain from an incarceration, and Um, you know, looking looking at at the at the law and our legal system in a critical way, but then saying from there, Okay, So if this is part of social institutions that have been established for years and those those systems have been set up to take advantage of the quote disadvantage, and these are the repercussions long standing in light of that, Now where else do we see these effects as a result of the same
[ken]:
right?
[dee_lanier]:
things, And so then yous then start spilling into the other institutions that have also not only been established for the advantage of some and the disadvantages of others, but in ways working conjunction with one another, so that it makes things harder in each in. Every institution in which an individual operates now, that's being a good faith actor. To say, we're going to speak to what criticalary theory is Primarily about what it says. what it's establishes. Do we see it as true? If not, then what is your counter explanation And why? But if we do recognize and see it is true and believe that it's it's completely um. it. You have to do some mental gymnastics to come to different conclusions, but then to say, Okay, what are its long standing results still in other institutions And then how do those institutions operate in conjunction with one another? Which is how we come to the conclusion of systemic race?
[ken]:
right?
[dee_lanier]:
M. But that's all saying, we want to engage in a conversation in an honest way,
[mediaboard_sounds]:
Ssssssssssssss,
[dee_lanier]:
But the reality is is that the Christopher Rufho theory has no desire to do so
[ken]:
No, no, it's it. It is primarily to plate two, and even some cases reinforce the fear of the unknown, and uh, the denial of the need to engage in meaningful information acquisition that we all com to as research. It's easy to. It's easy
[dee_lanier]:
right.
[ken]:
to create a false narrative that is over simplified and then, and unleashion on the masses than it is to provide an analytical and da, I again, theoretical approach to it so.
[dee_lanier]:
That's too crazy, you know, but the common alls between, Just to mention this, as we ra, and part two of what will probably become Part eighty nine, because as we continue to talk about race, people will say, Oh, that's just c r T. and they don't even know exactly what they're talking about, but nonetheless we can have that conversation. You. Uh, the common allies between culturally relevant teaching or cultural responsive pedagogy and critical race theory is that both are predicated on the understanding that race was socially constructed at a certain time for a certain purpose, and that purpose is still being played out today. And if you're unclear what that is, then as you said, Ki, time to do a little bit of research, Doc of research. Don't wait until the blood tied ho. The blood tide is high to start reaching out to your your black friends. I' like. Can you help me understand? Uh, nah, this is this is. this is fair time to do your work. Do your research. Uh, look for yourself and see if there are things that Um are clearly happening in our education institution as well as other institutions that seem to be explained by race and racism. And then comes the
[mediaboard_sounds]:
is.
[dee_lanier]:
big question, And that is how can we break free from those things, And how can we help others be broken free from that, which is another way of saying, How can we be liberated as educators?
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